The Lies About Obama's Citizenship
61Smear Campaign
Politics is a dirty game. Everyone knows it and everyone hates it but this has been the status quo for many years. The fact that a group of people are for or against a candidate is not the problem... the problem is the lies and deceit that they will resort to in order to get their candidate to win.
An example of this is seen in the current Obama vs McCain campaign. There is a well funded movement to try and smear Barrak Obama in order to get John McCain in the White House. It is very similar to the smear campaign that was launched against John Kerry in his bid against George Bush.
The M.O. goes something like this.... wealthy supporters of McCain use their money to fund groups of bloggers and individuals to post inaccurate and false statements against Obama. These statements range from trivial things like Obama is a muslim, to Obama is gay, even that Obama is not a U.S. citizen!
Yes you heard that right... the Conservative funded blogger army (in what appears to be an idea conjured up during a marijuana induced high) is resorting the despicable act of making up lies about false birth certificates and citizenship conspiracy theories.
Their goal is pretty obvious. They want to plant little seeds of doubt into the minds of American's who are often too busy to fact check or question sources.
The bloggers quote each other's sites as references yet they never quote a legitimate news agency. Ultimately they will try and use the court system to file fictitious lawsuits so that Obama will be forced to respond to their false allegations. Once he does respond, a news agency (like Fox news) will recite the allegation and the bloggers will use this reciting of the allegation as a source.
A perfect circle... a lie is used to file a false lawsuit. The person must respond to the false lawsuit. A biased news source makes reference to the lawsuit... and now the original accuser uses this news story as their "proof" to try and convince public.
Is this the American thing to do?
The problem with all of this is that the the wealthy are using their power to try and influence the masses in illegitimate ways. They are distracting the public from the real issues like the economy, the war in Iraq, the housing industry collapse, and even outsourcing.
These are all issues that affect us as Americans yet these wealthy bozos are trying to use our fears and biases against us. They don't want us to remember the real issues because they want to remain in control, they want to retain power, and they want to keep their cash cows alive.
Because they have millions and billions of dollars, they have the power to hire an army of paid stooges to sit on their computers and make up these false accusations and lies. They did this once before with the Swift Boat Veterans, and now they are trying a multi pronged approach with Obama. The lies stem from Obama being an Al-Qaeda operative, to him being a closet muslim, and now to Obama not being a U.S. citizen.
I love my country but the fecal matter emanating from these liars and paid stooges is really making me nauseous. Am I the only one out there that smells these rats?
CommentsLoading...
Blangrehr,
I appreciate your comments. Are there biased leftist sites? Yes of course. What I am talking about is a movement to smear a candidate with lies. If you don't like Obama because of his stance on issues then that is your right. But why make up stuff about his citizenship and ties to terrorists etc.?
And this nonsense about race... why is it that whenever a nonwhite runs for election the race issue comes out by WHITE folks? In Psychiatry this is called projection... that means you are putting your fear and hate on someone else and trying to accuse them of this. We are all American's... whether you are white, black, brown or green. And unfortunately even in 2008 this is still an issue.
Well said blangrehr. Totally correct.
Blangrehr,
From your profile... "I love this country and all its people. No name calling and no hate, respectful opinions" Where is your love when you falsely accuse someone of wanting to rape and pillage?
Sorry Obama is not my Messiah or my God. I would hope that McCain and Paulin are neither of those to you also. These are politicians and this is an election. Our country is not a theocracy and our forefathers wisely decided that our state and your church should be separated.
Vote for politicians based on politics and political issues not on religious issues... that is the difference between the United States of American and Iran!
Religious beliefs determines how they make decisions, so it is based on religious issues. I want to know that our president is someone who is praying and asking God for guidence. Not someone who reads the koran. Religion is a huge part of the election or it should be for those who love America. What you believe determines what you do, what I do, and unltimately what everyone does, including our leaders.
Allshokup,
Thanks for the comments but honestly that kind of thinking is what you find in backward countries like Iran! Sorry but our forefathers new the danger of your line of thinking and that is why they kept the 2 separate. When you mix religion and politics you have some very bad results.
By the way... do you think Mr. G.W. was great for our country? He claimed he spoke directly with God so that means his actions should have led to the betterment of our country.
Personally I would not vote for someone who PRACTICES what is in the Koran because it is a book filled with ideology that I do not agree with... just my opinion... no offense to those who find words of peace or comfort in it. But if someone reads the Koran, or the Bible, or the Torah, or whatever... yet they do good things for the country then they have my vote. Politics is NOT about religion no matter how much you want it to be. And when politics does become about religion the country begins its decline.
Nonetheless, Obama is a Christian... and just because he doesn't practice your style of Christianity does not make him an evil person... unless of course you speak directly to God.
Actually, through Jesus Christ, I do talk directly to God. Jesus is the Mediator. Anyone who prays talks to God. (That is, when someone prays to The One God) I take it that you are an adult? It baffles me that you cannot see that what a person believes determines how s/he acts. The decisions they make. They cannot be seperated. What you believe is who you are. No matter how you try, you cannot seperate what a person thinks and what a person does.
Allshookup,
Your religion, or lack thereoff, is your personal choice. When you were younger were you as strong in your religion? Were you an evil person because you were not as strong in your faith? For most people the answer is no.
It is good that you pray to God... that is your choice. Your are a good person that prays to God, yet there are also good people who do not pray to God and there are also evil people who DO pray to God.
Your religion or lack thereof does not decide your intentions or your merits to run our country. George Bush claims to be a man of God... as did Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon... did they do the right things for our country?
I think you are missing the point. What we are discussing is that a person's beliefs effect how they would make decisions if elected. The answer is yes, that is what determines how they make decisions. It determines how you post. It determintes how you treat people. What is in your heart and mind is the ultimate decision-maker. What people feel in their mind/heart as right or wrong is what tells them what to do or not to do. And the answer to your question to was I strong in my religion when I was younger: I have been in a God-fearing, Bible-believing chruch since I was conceived, I graduated from a Christian school and my husband and I have been youth leaders in our church and we homeschool our son with Christian cirriculum. We have studied the Bible and God has proven Himself to us many many many times. When I was young I was in many Bible competitions. If what you are asking is if I have studied the Bible, the answer is yes. And when you say that evil people pray to God, you do realize He doesn't hear their prayers unless they are prayers of repentenance, right? God hears our prayers when we come to Him as sinners repenting. Then, after we are saved, we have an open line to Him to talk about whatever we need to talk to Him about. Also, there have been lots of people who claim to be people of God but actually aren't. Just because people say they are God, doesn't mean they are. Only God knows the heart of man, but we can also know a tree by its fruits. That is not judging, that it simply seeing how they act and their actions. That's why it's important to know what people have done in their lives before you vote for them. Their actions show what they stand for. Obama has been to a church that hates white people, he has said in his books that 'should the winds turn ugly' he will support muslims. These are the people who killed Americans on our own soil in a very cowardly way. The man is for killing babies. Those things tell me he is not a Christian. I can say that I'm Miss America, does that make me her? No. Anyone who is for abortion will not get my vote, period.
Allshookup,
Thanks again for your clarification but once again we differ in opinions. I think you have shown your true intentions and your true bias.... to you abortion is the only issue and that is how you vote. The long winded discussion about religion and morals is just a side issue and your last line paints a very clear picture because as you say "anyone who is for abortion will not get my vote period."
Well no offense to you, but you are not God, nor are you the only God fearing and "holy" person in the world. There are people of all religions who shall be rewarded by God... no matter how much you think otherwise. And as shocking as this may be to you... many of the people you throw stones at will also walk in heaven... so get over yourself.
Your religion works for you... that is great and I hope that God blesses you now and in the future. But beware when you start thinking and acting as if you are all knowing and mightier than everyone else. When you start sitting on a high chair you have a lot farther to fall and indeed the fall will come. I am not saying this to aggrevate you or get you worked up but simply as someone who has studied religion and is also in tune with God.
Once again our beloved country is not a theocracy no matter how much you want it to be. Our blessed forefathers were wise to realize that religious views are a personal matter and have no place in politics. The history of theocracies across the world has shown this over and over again.
Everyone who practices a religion feels that their religion is the best and their views are better than everyone else... you are no different. But we don't need someone in the White House who can recite the Bible line for line... we need someone who can fix our economy, provide healthcare for all (including the poor and the destitute), and provide the world with a role model to base their countries on.
I never once said I was better than anyone else because I am not. I have no idea where you got that. I feel you are attacking me because I am not for Obama. I believe what I do because it's God Word. Abortion is wrong, plain and simple. That is only one of the reasons I wont vote for him. I also talked about him and his so-called church and his view on muslims. He will support the same people who cowardly killed Americans on 9/11. I realize that other people from other denominations will be in Heaven. I never once said they wouldn't. But only people who believe and have Jesus as their personal Savior will be there. It states that plainly in the Bible. 'Good' people doesn't quality people for Heaven. There's only one way to Heaven as stated in the Bible. (The things I am saying is not from me, it's from the Bible. It is not my opinion, it's what the Bible says.) Unless you confess your sins and ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior, you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Those are not my rules, those are God's. He is the Rule-maker, not me. In this hub you talk about people trying to smear Obama. Where is your hub about people trying to smear Palin?
AllShookup,
I apologize if you feel that I am attacking you personally but I am not. Rather I am attacking your point of view (which I see all too frequently these days). I quoted your exact phrase in which you said abortion was the one and only issue that decides if you will vote for a candidate. These are your words not mine. You don't care about other issues like the economy, the war in Iraq, the housing crisis... all you care about (as mentioned in your response) is abortion.
As to whether abortion is right or wrong... I also feel it is wrong but our courts have decided that it is a personal choice and as an American I understand that. The president does not decide if abortion is legal or illegal... if that were the case then 8 years of Reagan + 4 Years of George H + 8 years of George W would have lead to its overturning. 20 years of so called "anti-abortion" presidents have not led to the reversal of Roe v Wade... do you really think McCain will do anything different?
Sorry but this is where these bozos have you cornered. They know that there are a lot of people out there who do the knee jerk vote against abortion and so they can use the White House to help their oil buddies and their Halliburtons etc. while you keep thinking they are fixing the abortion problem. They know they just have to mention the Anti A words and they have your vote.... is this what we have been reduced to?
By the way, I also feel that fornication is wrong... premarital sex is wrong. See Paulin will have you believe she is also a good person with good values yet her own daughter is an example of the lack of morals in our society. Paulin has also done some vary questionable things in terms of cronyism and using her power to to have personal favors (and grudges) carried out. You choose to ignore these reports even though there is so much evidence supporting it.
Unlike you I, do not vote based on phoney religious credentials. I vote based on a candidates actions, credentials, and potential. Paulin has shown repeatedly that even though she wears her religion as a badge she is of questionable character.
What sort of person decides at age 42 that they will have unprotected sex knowing full well that the baby they conceive will likely have Down's Syndrome? Even a high school biology classes teach that Down's is higher in Mom's over the age of 35... so why did Paulin act so irresponsibly?
As for being a parent... where was she when her daughter was out fornicating with her boyfriend? Why was she not supervising her daughter? If she was too busy why was her husband not doing the same?
See these are not smears.... these are actual facts about her life. Saying that Obama is a noncitizen, a terrorist, a bisexual, etc.... these are all just lies.... you know this as well as I do.
I never said that was the only reason. You are not understanding my posts. I said that was a reason but not the only one. I wont vote for a person who is pro-choice. But even if Obama changed and was pro-life, I still wouldn't voet for him due to a list of other reasons.
A persons' actions shows what he believes or doesn't believe. Ie: your posts.
You are not God, therefore you can't judge that she was irresponsible by having a baby at her age. That decision is between God, her husband, and her and their family.
Britol is 17 years old. And she had sex. I don't agree with premarita sex either. But, she's human and gave in to temptation. How many people do you know that hasn't given in to some type of temptation? So, does that mean that every mother of every teenage girl is a bad mother since their child has sex? And if she was havin sex with her husband, then good for her. That's one of the reasons God gave us sex.....to enjoy it with your husband. Yes, I'd agree that it wasn't a wise decision doing that at that age and time. But, she is human and I don't think most mothers are going with their teenage children 24/7. How many mothers do you know that is with their teenagers 24/7? I don't know a single parent that has the time to do that. It's rediculious for you to even say that. How dare you judge her for something her teenage daugher has done. I think it speaks highly of both Sarah's and Brisol's character that she is keeping the baby. She could have murdered it and made life so much easier on them. But she chose to stand by her conviction. It's none of your business how old Sarah was when she had a baby nor is it any of your business that Bristol is pregnant. That has nothing to do with her being Vice-President. The fact is most homes have both parents working. Therefore they can't be with their children 100% of the time. This is a very low thing for you to say. If Biden's daughter were pregnant, would you have said these things? I seriously doubt it.
Things like this are being said because you can't find legit issues to aruge with her over. So, you have to stoop lower and lower in your actions. Shows your character well. You are asking for her to be non-human. What you are asking is for her to be a perfect parent. No one, not even you, can do that. How many kids do you know that don't mess up? Since all children mess up at some point, that means every single person that has children are bad parents, and therefore, according to your statement, not one person in the word is qualified to be president.
AllShookup,
So are you saying that if McCain was pro-Choice and Obama was Pro-Life that you would still vote for McCain? Be honest.
As for Sarah Paulin... how dare you try and hide her moral and personal history by claiming it is her private life. I am sorry but it was PAULIN who brought her fornicating daughter on stage for all the world to see. It was PAULIN who put her young disabled baby in front of the camera for the world to see. She put her family in the public spotlight so don't sit there and cry foul when people question her morals and the details of her family life.
Sarah Paulin did everything in her power to remove sex education from Alaska schools because she claimed that it would make kids more promiscous and that schools have no business teaching what parents should be teaching. So why didn't she teach her daughter about sex? Her moronic policies led to her own daughter being pregnant (she would have been promiscuous anyway so why not prevent kids from having abortions by teaching them how not to get pregnant... including abstinence?). If nothing else, Paulin's policy of not teaching kids about abstinence and birth control have probably caused more abortions because of all the teenage girls going around fornicating because they are not taught otherwise (or taught how to prevent it).
Instead of trying to shame girls into abstinence by making them feel it is wrong to have a child out of wedlock, people like you and Paulin put them on stage as role models to other girls. You praise her because she did not have an abortion... again she would not be in this situation if she learned some morals in the first place. Or if Paulin or her husband (who was busy fishing) spent more time keeping tabs on their kids.
Sorry I don't know about you but when I was 16 years old my parents knew EVERYWHERE I was and they knew Everyone I was with. That is what good parents do. The actions of Paulin's daughter speak clearly about her parenting (or lack thereof). Don't claim that all of a sudden a person who chooses to be in the public spotlight is entitled to not being scrutinized. I am sorry but I want to know if the person I am voting for is preaching one thing yet doing the total opposite at home. If Paulin can't handle the scrutiny (or if she has too much to hide) then she should have declined the nomination.
As for Paulin's disabled child... yes it was with her husband and yes it is ok to have relations between a husband and wife but are you that against gentics that you don't believe there is a risk of Down's syndrome? If you know the risk shouldn't you do your best to prevent it.... especially when you preach against welfare to poor mothers? Who takes care of that child when the Paulin's pass away? The taxpayers do... why should I have to pay for Paulin's refusal to wear a condom? Isn't this the argument made against all the poor mom's on welfare?
And finally... you say that "things like this are being said because you can't find legit issues to aruge with her over"....
so her Cronyism is not an issue to argue with? Or is that private as well? Troopergate is not an issue to argue with? Ohh wait that is private also? Her record of pork barrel spending an issue or is that also private?
Seems like you have this backward... you lie and make up claims against Obama... his citizenship, his religion, his motivations... because you cannot argue about real POLITICS yet for Sarah Paulin it is wrong to argue about politics and REAL issues like her perosnal moral decisions, her cronyism, and her using her office for personal gain. My Gosh our country is declining even more than I thought!
You like to talk about the facts of an issue, research (because you obviously have not) Black Liberation Theology. Race is an issue because Barack made it so. He still is in fact, everyday; he just made a statement claiming that for Americans to vote for him was a big jump for us. He was talking to people that paid thirty thousand dollars a plate to eat with him during the most serious economic problems in this country since 1931. That is a race comment; by the way, the Obama campaign raised close to 400 million dollars during this campaign, again, during terrible economic times. Well I guess not for him. I disagree with his position of wealth redistribution through taxation, I disagree with his position of government owned and controlled industry such as universal healthcare, I disagree with his position concerning gun control, I disagree with his position concerning the fabricated pseudo-religion that is Global Warming. I of course disagree with abortion, partial birth abortion and the born alive abortion legislation he spoke so eloquently in favor of on the floor of the Illinois legislature. I disagree with his placating foreign policy and disagree with notion of global citizenship and one world government. Those are issues…
Are you trying to say that sex education prevents pregnancy and no sex education promotes it? Thats rediculous. Look at how many babies are born out of wedlock now and there is sex education everywhere. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And EVERYONE lives in glass houses. Careful where you point your finger, there are seveal pointing back at you. This is about a low as I have seen people go. You can't attack her on real issues so you sink to this. How pitiful.
And blangrehr, Great comments. Very spot on! I don't think anyone could say it better.
Blangrher,
Are you insane? Global warming a fabricated pseudo-religion? Uhhh maybe you should stick to religious studies because science is obviously not your forte. You tell me that I should do a little research... perhaps you should do the same. Global warming is a real problem... doesn't matter if Blangrehr says its not.
As for the $30,000 a plate dinners... right.... as if Obama is the only politician in Washington that has done this. A family friend of mine paid $2000 a plate for G.W Bush dinner and photo op so don't sit there and tell me Obama is the only politician that is doing this.
As for universal healthcare.... did you know we are the ONLY industrialized country in the world that does not offer universal healthcare. Despite this did you know that we spend more of our Gross Domestic Product on healthcare than ANY other country in the world. Go do your homework before you sit there trying to make a speech and give a lecture.
I have a friend who lives in Canada. They have solicalized healthcare. She had pneumonia. It took her 12 days to see a dr for it because of the type of healthcare they have up there. She almost died because of it. She has now moved to the US because she can see a doctor here when she is sick.
Allshookup, You and Blangrehr obviously get all your news from the Rush Limbaugh hour of power. Maybe try opening up some other news sources once in a while and you will learn something.
If you did you would know that teenage pregnancy has hit an all time LOW. It is the lowest it has been in 30 years!!! Here is a link to the report in case you want to put down your Paulin love letters: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/09/12/USTPstat
So now tell me again if Sex education is working?
Maybe you will do what Blahrenger does and just make up facts and discredit any studies you don't agree with. The scientists and researchers are all paid by the Obama campaign right?
As for Paulin and pointing fingers... is she so frail and weak that she cannot stand up to scrutiny? Or is it just that she has so much more to hide. Let me spell out some real issues with Paulin... in case you were unable to read them in my last post...
Troopergate, Pork Barrel Spending, Cronyism. Care to address these issues about your beloved Paulin? Ohh wait I am sorry... I forgot... she is your messiah so "how dare" anyone question her right?
Allshookup,
If your friend was in the U.S. and did not have health coverage or God forbid that she lost her job and her health coverage do you think she could have seen a doctor?
Did you know that Canadians are more satisfied with their health care than American's are? Would you like me to cite the source for this?
Did you know that the only nationalized healthcare system we have in the United States (which is the VA healthcare system) is considered to be the best in the U.S.?
Sex education should be taught by parents period. That's how God made it. If you don't want the responsiblity of having 'the talk' don't have sex yourself and don't have a child. Parents look for ways not to have to raise their children. They are lazy. They put it on the government and the teachers to do. It's not a teachers responsiblity to raise your child, it's yours. It's the parents.
I'm voting for her because she is pro-life, pro-creation, pro-gun, pro-family, pro-Christian pro-drilling. She is a human, not my Messiah. Do not put words in my mouth. She's human, she makes mistakes. So does everyone. I never said she's perfect. I said I will vote for her because of the issues that I agree with her on.
I worked in a hospital for 4 years before I became a stay at home momma. We took whoever walked through our doors. Whether you have insurance or not you were taken care of. You got health care. You were treated. And btw, it was a Baptist hospital.
I would love to work in the hospital you worked in because that is not what I have seen. I am also in the healthcare industry and from what I have seen the first question asked is whether or not a patient has insurance. I have worked in private hospitals where I have personally heard patients being redirected to County because an insurance card was not found in their wallet.
Also did you know that one of the main reasons for personal bankruptcy is not being able to pay medical bills? Obviously there are a lot of Americans who are not receiving care for this to happen.
As for Sex education... YOU believe that God made it for parents to teach. Why does everyone have to follow what you believe? Did you know that parents must sign a permission slip before their kids are given sex education? So if you don't want your kids to get it you don't have to sign the slip.
Again the simple fact is that teenage pregnancy is at a 30 year low because (in large part) of sex education. Less teenage pregnancy= less abortion... isn't that a good thing?
Allshookup and Blahrengr,
Let me begin this comment by first apologizing to you both. In my attempt to speak my point of view I realized that instead of discussing I am arguing, and instead of educating I am aggrevating. If I have spoken in a way that has inflamed either of you I apologize.
My point with posting all of this (and losing control in the process) is that I am sick and tired with the dirt and lies that I am seeing in politics.
I don't care if you vote for McCain or Obama... that is your right and duty as an American (although I can get my BP up again by thinking of all those morons who don't vote!) The thing that bothers me is that instead of talking about issues and records the politicians are once again distracting the American public. Worse than that.... the special interests (be they the billionaire oil tycoons or the billionaire churchs) are using their power and money to influence this election by misleading us all. I am not saying that special interests work only for McCain... I am sure they work for Obama as well.
Neither of the candidates is perfect yet you side with McCain and I side with Obama... no matter what happens we still live side by side as Americans first (and then as Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, aethists or whatever next).
I just am fed up with all of the lies and deceit and all of the things going wrong in this country (as I am sure you are also). I am tired of politicians hiding behind fake issues so they don't have to explain details or talk about their own personal decisions.
No matter who wins the election, lets just pray that they do what is right for our country and that our country once again returns to its Glory days).
Hope you both have a good evening
I think Obama or whatever his name is should suply the birth certificate and the other documents that the public want to see. what is he hidning dude? I thought he was all about transparency? Ca't see his school records. Nothing, nada zilch.
If you think we'regoing to let an Islamic Jihad happen in this country, you better watch out pal.
Sorry to tell you this miguel but his brith certificate was already supplied. He had nothing to hide and it was a non issue. You are being fooled into believing there is a case and there is an argument when there is none. Go read C. Vrajavala's hub and look at his sources they are all nonsense. Not only that the dates that C. Vrajavala supplied as being "hearing" dates have all long gone by and nothing.
Vrajvala, ohh sorry I mean miguel... you guys are pretty sad that you have to resort to this because you cannot debate any real issues like the economy or the Iraq war, or any of the issues that really matter. Maybe that is why your candidate is losing so badly? Or did you predict that Vrajavala?
WOW it's amazing how vicious people can be. who is actually more believable? people tell you things some true some not. investigate some facts! nobody is perfect.
as for Obama being for abortion that's his choice we all have choices that is what life is all about. Sylvia Browne says that if a child is stillborn or aborted their soul goes to another body, it wasn't lost or destroyed. there are situations that abortion are the best way to handle a situation, all the factors have to be looked at.
what is the difference if he's black or white? there is no difference as long as he does the right thing.
the U.S. needs some type of health care for all. how many times have we not been able to go to the doctor because we didn't have the money? I for example have had to suffer over the years, putting food on the table & having a roof over my childs head is more important. credit gets ruined because you can't afford to pay for medical bills. why create more debt that you can't afford. suffering is all we americans are doing these days. the goverment should research more and look into legalizing marijuana for medical purposes instead of condemming it. http://www.thepoint.com/campaigns/marijuana-equali
LaineyLou,
Good points! I agree with you for the most part. Our health care system is the most expensive in the world, yet we don't compete compared to other countries.
As for marijuana, I think the medicinal use is abused by many people. I think there are more people using medical marijuana without any real need than people with a true medical need. It should definitely be legal for medicinal purposes but it should be more controlled... on the level of morphine to prevent people from abusing it.
blangrehr 3 years ago
What about the likes of the daily kos and moveon.org? These poeple are Psychopaths: George Soros owns the Democratic Party. Obama is friends with admitted terrorist and his spiritual mentor hates America and White people. Have you read any of his books? Have you read his wife’s theist? They both dislike and this country and a whole race of people that live here. He intends to rape and pillage this country and you believe the right is trying to smear him. This is the biggest bunch of lies I’ve read on this radical hate America socialist site. Enjoy the total destruction of America; you and yours have prayed to your secular Gods for the coming of this Messiah. So let’s see how you/he does.